October 08, 2004

The Town Hall Presidential Debate

This debate ought to provide more entertainment and more candid information than the last two. I’m also not as skeptical about Charlie Gibson than others. I think his influence on the questions will be fairly minimal.

I’m updating frequently, so come back often.

Check Blogs for Bush for a list of other livebloggers and hit them often. Get a lot of opinions as we go along. And don’t forget that Blogs for Bush is also liveblogging with a roundtable. Updates happen there, as well as here.

Heck - keep a few browser windows open tonight. It’ll be fun!

Here we go.

1) Are you wishy-washy?

Kerry didn’t answer this question beyond a “No”. He did launch a pretty boilerplate attack on the President. The President replied with his own boilerplate. Kerry’s problem is that Bush’s boilerplate packs punch.

2) A question about Iraq - was there a threat, even with no WMDs found?

President first. It was a nice move of him to note that September 11 changed the dynamic. Another good point about how Hussein was working to lift sanctions so he could resume his programs. He also is showing a lot of emotion on this question. That could play well (but may play negatively elsewhere).

Now Kerry. The world is more dangerous today because the President make the wrong judgements. Kerry is saying that he says Kerry’s changed his mind because he can’t address jobs, or NCLB. “I’ve never changed my mind about Iraq…but I owuld have used that force…that authority wisely. I would have brought our allies to our side. This President rushed to war…and Iran now is more dangerous and so is North Korea”. This one really is a loser for Kerry.

Bush rebuts by bringing up the “global test” from the last debate. “That’s the kind of mindset that says let’s keep it at the United Nations and hope things go well… Sanctions were not working. The United Nations was not effective”.

The candidates are going directly at each other now. I think this plays better to Kerry right now than to the President.

3) Another Iraq question - would you proceed in Iraq with the same plan as the President?

Kerry quotes King Abdullah (?) in saying that you can’t hold elections in Iraq and quotes Republican Chuck Hegel also (nice job, Chuck!).

“He pushes them away”. Bush has to confront the notion that the President pushed away our allies. I’m guessing that he ought to bring up the Oil for Food bribery scheme sooner rather than later. He’s going to get Iraqi training done faster and get our allies back. Note that he didn’t say how. Were I the President I’d ask him directly how he’d do that. S**t or get off the pot, in other words.

The President is leading off with a strong card - PM Allawi. “My opponent says he has a plan. It sounds familiar. It’s called the Bush Plan”. He’s also deriding the idea of a summit to ask people to help us in a war that is a mistake. “I know how these people think. I meet with them all the time…they’re not going to follow an American President who says ‘Follow me into a mistake’”.

Kerry follows up by saying that the right war was in Tora Bora. “That was the reason Congress gave him the authority to use force” - speaking of WMDs. I don’t recall that being accurate.

“First of all, we didn’t find out he didn’t have weapons until we got there”. Nice comeback from the President but he could be more direct on the Monday Morning Quarterbacking that Kerry and Edwards are doing.

4) About anti-Americanism and how we handled the Iraq situation - especially diplomacy.

The President made an interesting admission: that he made decisions he knew would make America unpopular, but that he made them because they were in the right interests of the country. He’s also addressing his reasons for not engaging Arafat and how it was unpopular in Europe but that it was the right decision. This kind of stuff works very well for him. I can almost predict the Kerry rebuttal. It’s a good point to note that there are 30 nations in Iraq and 40 in Afghanistan. Another good point is that the President ought not to take decisions because it’s popular but because it’s right.

Kerry’s saying that the President is promising us more of the same over the next four years. Well, of course! Promising different than that is Kerry’s job. His point is that the President doesn’t listen to advice and that he does. Kerry also hits hard on the President not “winning the peace”.

5) A question about Iran - what will you do as President in Iran.

Kerry: “I don’t think you can just rely on UN sanctions”. Didn’t he just say that he wanted to rely on sanctions in Iraq? Bush really needs to jump on that hard. More on bunker-busters.

“That answer almost made me want to scowl” - great aside from the President. A good note that we’re now doing in Iran what John Kerry wanted us to do - diplomacy and multilateralism. He also hits Kerry hard on his wanting bilteral talks with the multilateral talks in place.

(I just realized something. This would be more fun if I blogged it with lots of wrestling lingo. So here we go! *DingDING!*)

6) A question about policing the world and the draft.

Ouch. Bush said the word “internet” lie he’d never heard it before. But it was good for him to be emphatic about now having the draft. He’s talking about how we’re moving our troops around to make them more efficient to meet a new threat. That’s a good point and one that hasn’t been made very often lately.

Whoa! Bush just jumped in and probably broke a rule to bring a “foreign object” into the debate. He ticked off countries involved in the Coalition and said you can’t denigrate them and lead.

Kerry barely fended that off, but he’s bleeding.

7) A question about terrorism - why have there been no terrorist attacks since 9/11 and how will you keep us safe?

Kerry’s answer: he can’t say. “We’ve been told that it’s not a matter of ‘if’ but a matter of ‘when” terrorist attacks will happen. And it’s also a matter of taxes. Did Kerry just say we’re not safer because Bush gave rich people a tax cut? Huh? He missed the hold entirely.

Bush comes back with a great reversal noting that we have tripled the Homeland Security budget then whaps him off the turnbuckle by noting Kerry’s voting against intelligence budgets.

“The test is not if you add money…”. Huh? Kerry seems to be fighting a different match here. Maybe he doesn’t realize this is a Hardcore Match for the Belt!!

8) A quesiton about health issues - why block Canadian prescription drugs.

“I haven’t yet. I just want to make sure they’re safe”. He could have done without the word “yet” in that sentence, don’t you think? And wouldn’t it have been better if he hadn’t mentioned how it’s the government’s job to protect us? Maybe he’s getting winded here. He has a couple small cuts from the last question, but nothing serious. Generic drugs are good but the senior drug discount card isn’t a big winner, but it’s what he has. He needs to learn a better move to deal with this issue. Ah! The President is courageous for taking on Medicare? Well, maybe.

Kerry’s up and spinning off the ropes right now. The President isn’t paying any attention. Kerry’s just cracking his head off the turnbuckle over and over again on this issue. “I’m fighting for the middle class”. Ouch.

Bush invokes President Clinton, but it’s not a good diversion. But this one is: “Show me one accomplishment he’s made toward Medicare”.

“We did someting you don’t know how to do: we balanced the budget”. Kerry’s also taking credit for the jobs created in the 1990s and for the low deficit. Nice bit of diversion there while he goes for the brass knucks.

9) A question about health care - Kerry’s choice of Vice President suing doctors in the past.

Kerry copped to being a lawyer - not a very good move. Expect the President not to be under this five-star splash when Kerry’s finished. He can give everyone healthcare if we roll back the tax cut.

The President looks a bit uncertain and doesn’t come out strong. Nice recovery though noting how Kerry wasn’t around to make vital votes on healthcare.

Whoa! Lawsuits cost us 28 billion dollars a year? That’s an awful lot if it’s accurate. And it’s a good point to note that having the government in charge of health care is a bad idea.

10) A question about lawsuits - capping damages

Kerry: Yes, sure, kind of. Back to the President. Did the President really cut kids from health care? Really? I bet he didn’t.

Bush: Ouch!! What a move (If Kerry thought this was such an important issue, he probably should have showed up and vote for it)

11) A question about the deficit - How is the President’s spending better than Kerry’s.

Bush hits the recession and the war that have cost us money. He also hits the tax cuts for everybody. Bet that Kerry will come back with a “tax cuts for the rich”

Non-defense, non-homeland security discretionary spending has increased by one percent. Err…I don’t know that’s right. It could be, but it sounds wrong.

Kerry’s refining hs view on his government health care program. “If you like your high premiums, you keep ‘em”. Wasn’t that just a touch condescending?

Bingo! If you’re playing the drinking game where Kerry talks about the tax cut for the rich, you should be drunk by now.

Gibson’s follow up on how they’ll cut the deficit because they’ve given no plans.

Bush comes out by noting the situation he faced when he came into office. It’s a good point but he’s not there long enough. He’s letting Kerry out of the hold far too early on this issue and Kerry’s just reversed him. I’m sure the President can put up some good offense on this issue, but he’s not.

12) A question about taxes - will yo promise not to raise taxes on people under 200,000 dollars a year.

Kerry’s now talking about his tax cuts. Both of them: child tax credit and tuition credit. Well, that’s something, isn’t it? Kind of a weak bounce off the ropes and my guess is the President has a clothesline waiting for him. “The President broke the ‘pay as you go’ rule”? What rule? “You have to stand up and fight somewhere, folks”. Wow. I can’t believe he actually said that. Looks like Kerry’s making a big “face turn”. But those rich folks are going to get a tax increase.

Okay, the President is using Kerry’s record against him. It’s a mudhole stomping of epic proportion! Well, almost. He broke his own momentum…again.

The same follow-up from Gibson.

Kerry. Oh yes, the “fuzzy math” figure about Kerry’s spending proposal. And a commission about corporate loopholes.

Bush: “You can run, but you can’t hide [from his record]”. Ouch. Another big cut open on Kerry.

13) A question about the environment and pollution.

This is Bush’s weak spot, I think. Others disagree but I don’t think he’s going to make much traction here. ON the other hand, neither does Kerry. We’ll have to watch them circle each other for a question before they lock up again.

Oh wait. The Kyoto Treaty. Bush missed the chance to point out how Kerry didn’t vote for it. Kerry says “I was there” in Kyoto and says the President didn’t try to fix it. An odd exchange.

14) A question about jobs - wages and competition.

Kerry: “There are a lot of ways to be competetive…” Yes, there are. Will he mention any of them or will he just go back on the attack? Erg. Attack.

We can be competetive by dealing with the costs of health care. You think that Kerry believes his health care plan is his strong point.

Yay! Take another “tax cut for the rich” drink! Watch your alcohol level, though. You could get dangerously close to an alcohol coma.

And energy independence! And an entrepreneurial spirit!

Nothing on wages and competetiveness.

More on health care. I’m not sure this is germane to business itself but I’ll let them wander around the ring a bit before I start booing them both. This is definitely the lull in the match tonight.

And did Kerry just say he couldn’t stop outsourcing?

Finally, finally, finally - Bush notes that his tax increase will hit small businesses.

Oh but it’s not true, according to the Wall Street Journal - so says Kerry. And now being a small business is a tax dodge, according to Kerry/ He just said something about the President owning a timber company. What the heck was that?

“I own a timber company? That’s news to me!”. OH MY GOD! HE’S BROKEN HIM IN HALF!

15) A question about security - and a leading one about the PATRIOT Act. Gee. Think the guy’s against it?

Nice polite deflection from the President - “I don’t think you’re rights are being taken away”. This is a pretty fair defense of the Act, noting just how the Act is germane to dealing with terrorism in the country.

Kerry invokes a couple Republicans about “fixing” the Act. “People’s rights have been abused”, and he gives an example. And here’s the laundry list of ways rights have been eroded. They’re easy enough to knock down.

“I believe in the PATRIOT Act”. John Kerry just hit himself in the head with a folding chair! He’s weaving! He just obliterated his entire rebuttal with that one short statement.

16) A question about stem cells - embryonic stem cells versus those not destroying an embryo.

Kerry’s just assumed that she’s a pro-lifer and had to stop hard before he made the overt assumption. That didn’t look good at all. He’s not actually answering the question, though. He hasn’t said why embryonic stem cells are better than any others. That’s the real question here and he’s not answering it.

And he vapor locked about things he could cure with stem cells. Maybe because there aren’t so many?

Bush comes out strong and somber on tihs, noting that he’s the first President to have Federal funding on stem cell research.

Kerry apparently just said he’d use embryos in fertility clinics. Don’t those already belong to someone? Would he have the government seize them?

Kerry reverses very strong by saying that the President doesn’t want to destroy life, except the stem cells that already exist. Bush counters with a ringing note that the stem cell lines already in use are dead already.

17) A question about the Supreme Court - who would he choose and why.

He can’t answer the question because he doesn’t have a name in mind yet. Nice disarming answer. But he’s moving into the traits he wants: someone who’ll not let personal beliefs get in the way of a decision.

And he’s using the Pledge of Alliegance and Dred Scott decisions as examples of the judges he wouldn’t choose because it was personal opinion. Whoa. He almost made a Constitutional point by quoting the Declaration of Independence. “No litmus test except for how they will interpret the Constitution”. That a very concise line he can use again often.

Kerry’s attacking with what he said a few years ago. He wants a Justice who is a good judge. Well, that’s a nice inoffensive statement to make. But the laundry list he notes (and he noted “women’s rights to choose” and “reproductive rights” in that list. Aren’t they the same?) seems liberal enough to me.

18) A question about abortion - what would you say to someone who didn’t want their tax dollars going to abortion.

Kerry’s starting out by noting he’s a Catholic. He says he can’t legislate his faith. That doesn’t answer the question, though, which wasn’t about making abortion illegal but by forcing people to pay for abortion with their tax dollars.

Wait. He just said that we ought to help poor people get their Constitutionally-approved abortion if they can’t pay for it themselves. Did he really mean that?

Bush: “I’m trying to decipher that”. Yeah, so are the rest of us. “I’m not going to spend federal money to pay for abortions”.

Kerry’s comeback is on points like parental notification and rape and incest exceptions. “It’s never quite as simple as the President wants youto believe”.

WHACK! Bush just hit him again by noting that “yes” and “no” are pretty simple options on partial birth abortions. Kerry’s wearing the famed “red mask” right now.

This was a good exchange and really did note the differences between the two men.

19) A general question - when did you make a mistake and how did you correct it, and give three examples.

Bush: “I’m human. But on the big question…I’ll stand by those decisions because I think they were right”. He boils it down to being a question on Iraq and uses the Duelfer Report to defend himself. That was a good move to restate and clarify his position.

And he’s going to bring up the tax cut, too. This is a really good defense.

He made mistakes on appointments, but he won’t name names. Hmm..I wonder if he might be talking about people like Richard Clarke and his former Secretary of the Treasury?

Now Kerry’s going to give three mistakes the President made. He asks us to look into our hearts and ask if going to war was really the last resort. I don’t think he wants to do that, does he?

Hmm..Kerry just hit himself in the head again. “I made a mistake in how I talked about it….” then talked about his votes. Voting isn’t talking, Senator.

20) Closing statements.

Kerry keeps contradicting himself!! Argh! He won’t let another entitity veto a national security issue, but he’s going to draw closer to our allies. How can he do both. There’s more about the economy and how it’s failed and how we’re not secure. Then he says our best days are before us and that “I’m an optimist”. Hmm…wonder how that’s going to play with the “rose colored glasses” dig his campaign made about Bush before the debate?

“Stronger at home and respected again in the world”. There’s the closing campaign slogan.

Bush talks about leadership and our shared experiences: terrorist attacks, recession, war. And he notes how we’re moving forward despite all those things. It’s a clear implication that or good days are before us and that we’re in a better day now than the one we were in yesterday. That’s a strong message.

Filed under: — Jimmie @ 9:22 pm

1 Comment »

  1. Actually, I heard “internets”. There are rumours out there on them “internets”.

    Comment by ip dispassionately — October 08, 2004 @ 9:31 pm

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a comment