ASTM F-8.53 Helmet Subcommittee Minutes - Miami, November 2002

Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute


ASTM F8.53 Helmet SubCommittee

Unofficial and for members' convenience only







Minutes from ASTM F8.53 meeting: Miami, November, 2002.



ASTM Sub-Committee F-08.53 Headgear & Helmets
DRAFT MINUTES OF MEETING
November 8, 2002 - Miami, FL

The subcommittee meeting was called to order by Randy Swart at 8:42 AM. Dave Halstead (Chairman) was called away early and could not preside over this meeting. There were 22 members and 7 visitors in attendance. Attendance list was passed around.

Officers

Chairman: Dave Halstead
1st Vice Chairman: Randy Swart
2nd Vice Chairman: Dennis Piper
Secretary: Isabel Wright

Members

Jason Brand
Nelson Kraemer
George Nagobads
Fred Sulzbach
Roy Burek
Dean Fisher
Thom Parks
David Thom
Len Clement
Mark Granger
David Rudd
Chris Withnall
Eric Darnell
Joseph Lunny
John Sabelli
Steven Keller
Peter McGinnis
David Spenciner

Visitors

Jean Francois Laperriere
Dennis Lieu
Michael Swain
Matthew Pfeffer
Trish Bare-Grounds
Heiko Schlarb
Vijaya Kuruganti

ASTM Staff: Jim Olshefsky

Note: Minutes to committee/subcommittee meetings will no longer be mailed out. They will be available at the ASTM Website and the BHSI Website.

Announcements: ASTM is making virtual meeting technology available to members. An Internet connection is required. A sub group of the subcommittees could meet via Internet to make presentations or make progress on task group work in between regular meetings. Call Jim Olshefsky (Staff Manager) to get more info on how to set up a virtual meeting.

1) Introductions were made of those in attendance.

2) Changes in agenda - Pole Vaulting & Martial Arts were moved up in the agenda.

3) F-1446-00 Base Standard -

a) Headform specification: - David Spenciner - We currently reference a draft international standard (ISO 6220) that has been discontinued in our helmet tests. Intention is to take the information from this document and put it in ASTM format than we would have our own headform standard. The document was balloted and there were 3 comments and 1 negative.

Negative: Dave Thom - Frankfort plane vs. Basic plane. No evidence that the Basic plane corresponds to Frankfort plane. EN960 is referenced in this document but Frankfort plane is not mentioned in EN960. If there is a reference that ties these two planes together, then it should be listed in the headform draft. If not, then the term "Frankfort plane" should be taken out. It was determined that this wording can be removed as an editorial change.

Motion: Made by Dean Fisher: Term was found to be editorial and the term Frankfort plane will be removed.

Vote:
Yes --- Passed unanimously
No ---
Abstain ---

Additional comments:

1) Comment from Dave Thom - Product marking discussion - Product marking vs. just "marking"

2) Comment from Jason Brand & Dave Thom - 4 typos in document. 2 pages of text and 5 pages of tables. The numbers (typos) in the tables will be changed to reflect what is currently in the ISO draft standard. Dave Spenciner commented that in moving forward, there should be some review of these numbers at a later date. These would not be editorial changes.

3) Comment from Jacques Tholin deals with the possibility of the headform rotating on impact. Energy used in rotation is not captured by linear accelerometer. This was discussed yesterday at shirtsleeves meeting. Will wait for Jacques Tholin to come to next meeting for further explanation and discussion.

4) Comment from Guillaume Bélanger - (Section 4) Suggests that all headform sizes should be included from A-Q as per EN960 instead of only the 5 sizes (A, E, J, M & O). After extended discussion it was concluded that this topic along with the shape geometry will be discussed as part of the next revision, since this document has passed main committee.

5) Comment from Guillaume Bélanger - Delete the word "helmet" from the headform standard. (editorial change).

6) Comment from Celia Peterson - Cross reference to ANSI headform C which is a part of ASTM F355 (playground equipment) (similar to DOT standard). - There is another reference that they can use, original ANSI standard or DOT standard.

Congratulations were given to Dave Spenciner for completing this standard. Dave will get with ASTM editorial staff regarding small changes. The document then moves on to publication. Dave will then start work on possible revisions to the published document based on comments provided at this last ballot.

b) Comprehensive Clean-up - Dan Pomerening - Dan was absent from this meeting due to family reasons - Dan continues to look at this subcommittee's various standards to make them more uniform in format.

c) Labeling - Jason Brand - Jason had put together a spreadsheet of all labeling from each of the standards of this subcommittee plus two from Ice Hockey subcommittee. Some revisions were made after the Pittsburgh meeting and copies were sent to the labeling task group. More assistance is needed. The plan is to specifically look at F1446, revise, look for commonalties and then suggest labeling for " use only for ..." and multiple standards. After F1446, will go through remaining standards and revise as needed. Keep in mind label requirements for CPSC and CSA.

Labeling Task Group
Task group: Jason Brand,John Sabelli,Guillaume Bélanger, Mark Granger, Thom Parks

Note: If anyone would like to be on the e-mail list of the labeling task group, please contact Jason Brand (jason@teamwendy.com)

d) Dynamic Strap Test (F1446) - Roy Burek - Ballot item - Purpose of suggested change dealt with instructing technicians on how to adjust the harness when testing to remove variability. 1 negative and 2 comments. Negative - Dave Spenciner - The proposed change was not clear. Needs clarification to add an extra step. Wording changes - should be appropriate "referenced" headform. An additional wording change regarding "impact headform". Will confirm with ASTM to make sure these changes are editorial. The changes will be made and the negative was withdrawn. Comments - Additional comments were discussed from Dennis Piper, Jason Brand and Jeff Skein.

Additional activity (F1446) - Dave Spenciner has offered to help with the P&B task force. We have some data from CPSC's round robin several years ago that may work without further testing for the Precision and Bias statement

4) F697-00 Practice for care and use of Athletic Mouth Protectors

No activity. Dr. Hank Cross was not at the meeting. Nothing pending.

5) F910-86 Baseball / softball face protector - Larry Maddux not here - No activity

6) Martial Arts Helmet - Dr. Dennis Lieu - The task group met yesterday with approx. 12 people at the meeting. The draft specification was covered in detail. Copies are available from Dr. Lieu. Progress has been good, and there has been good cooperation. The draft martial arts specification came from already existing ASTM test methods and some of the work from Dr. Lieu's laboratory. The draft currently calls for 2 types of tests.

This is not a one time use head gear. Needs to survive multiple impacts over an extended period of time. A Hybrid III head was proposed. The impact tester for the swing arm needs to be built. Low temperature test was eliminated. Test line - area of testing was expanded where impacts are expected. Eliminate max. mass specification. Headgear must protect the wearer and opponent (striker). Labeling will have to be reviewed. Discussed life span recommendation. It was noted that there is a European martial arts standard.

7) Pole Vaulting Helmets - Peter McGinnis - The task group met yesterday. Following are the minutes of the task group meeting. Note: Only an overview of these minutes was discussed at the full subcommittee meeting.


F08.53 TASK GROUP ON POLE VAULT HEADGEAR Meeting Minutes
November 7, 2002 - 8-10 am
Fontainebleau Hilton - Miami Beach, FL

Present: Spencer Chang, Tim Curley, Edward Dare, Eric Darnell, Cynthia Doyle, Bill Farrell, Dean Fisher (co-chair), Mark Granger, David Halstead, Jan Johnson, G. Peter Macon, Mark Massmann, Peter McGinnis (co-chair), Dennis Piper, Eddie Seese, Wilson Soohoo, Randy Swart, David Thom

1. Discussion: Is a pole vault headgear standard needed?

Motion by Halstead, second by Seese:
To create a pole vault headgear standard to be considered by governing bodies as part of an overall plan to reduce pole vault injuries.
Motion passed: 19 in favor, 0 opposed

2. Discussion: elements of pole vault headgear standard

Dean Fisher has begun developing a pole vault headgear standard which combines elements of F1446, F1447, and F1492.

Motion by Halstead, second by Seese:
The task group recommends that the F08.53 Subcommittee on Headgear and Helmets approves the following statement: While the committee is working to establish an appropriate headgear standard for use in pole vaulting the committee recommends that governing bodies, consumers, and others desiring to use helmets immediately use helmets that meet one of the following standards: ASTM 1492, Snell N-94, or NOCSAE lacrosse helmet without face guard.

Discussion:

Motion amended to read as follows:
The task group recommends that the F08.53 Subcommittee on Headgear and Helmets approves the following statement: While the committee is working to establish an appropriate headgear standard for use in pole vaulting the committee recommends that governing bodies, consumers, and others desiring to use helmets immediately use helmets that meet one of the following standards: ASTM 1492 or NOCSAE lacrosse helmet without face guard.

Motion passed: 12 in favor, 1 opposed, 5 abstentions (see note below for the final version of the statement as approved by F08.53 Subcommittee on Headgear and Helmets)

TASKS: Dean Fisher has begun and will continue development of a pole vault headgear standard which combines elements of F1446, F1447, and F1492.

Meeting adjourned at 9:50 am.

Respectfully submitted: Peter M. McGinnis, Ph.D. (Co-chair)


On Friday, November 8, 2002, the F08.53 Subcommittee on Headgear and Helmets met and passed the following by a vote of 8 in favor and 0 opposed, with 8 abstentions: While the committee is working to establish an appropriate headgear standard for use in pole vaulting the committee recommends that governing bodies, consumers, and others desiring to use helmets immediately use helmets that meet one of the following standards: ASTM 1492 or NOCSAE lacrosse helmet without face guard or visor.

Motion was made by Peter McGinnis and seconded by Dave Thom.

Vote
Yes 8
No 0
Abstain 8

8) F2040 Recreational Snow Sports - Sid Roslund - Short discussion regarding editorial issues of plus/minus symbol on the ballot item. This document is ready to go to main committee ballot.

9) Roller hockey - Guillaume Bélanger - This is a new standard and was put out for ballot. 4 negatives were received along with a series of comments.

a) John Sabelli - section 4.5 re: ear coverage. The drawing will be fixed to address this persuasive negative. Discussion on section 4.4 (1st sentence)

b) Randy Swart - Impact is currently on 4 specific points on or above test line in the document. Discussion on controlled and uncontrolled. There was a vote on the negative - should allow testing on any location on or above the test line and not restricting it to specific sites. Negative was found to be persuasive.

Vote
Yes 11
No 0
Abstain 7

c) David Spenciner - Discussion on rationale on UV testing and relevance of the test proposed. There was a consensus to remove artificial aging test from the draft.

d) Labeling - Not intended for Ice Hockey - Leave labeling as is.

e) Garnet Alexander - Section 4.5 and 5.1 temperature too high (50°C) for helmet conditioning. A task group was formed to look into this.

Heat aging helmets Task Group
Task group Jason Brand Guillaume Bélanger

Guillaume will continue with the development of this standard and re-ballot.

10) Soccer Headgear - Dennis Piper - The letter from the US Soccer Federation (lead team physician) regarding the draft soccer helmet standard was read to the subcommittee. Dennis Piper chaired the task group meeting. About 25 people attended. The helmet would protect against incidental impacts in soccer, primarily from goalposts, the ground and other players, not specifically heading. The draft went out for ballot and received many negatives. These were discussed in the task group meeting. One negative was regarding the retention system in the draft required a hard shell. There was a vote that there should not be a hard shell-dependent retention system in the standard.

Vote
Yes 14
No 0
Abstain 6

11) F1447-99a Bicycle - (now combined with F1751) - Les Earnest - There was 1 comment (affirmative w/ comment) from Jacques Tholin - Paragraph 13: label Interior / permanent label Labeling task group will discuss the word "permanent".

12) F1751-00 - Recreational Roller Skating - Les Earnest - see above (F1447)

13) F1898-01 Infant toddler Non-Motorized Wheeled Vehicle - No activity. Nothing pending

14) F1952-00 Downhill Bicycle Racing - No activity. Nothing pending

15) F2032-00 BMX Bicycle - No activity. Nothing pending

16) F429-01 Football test methods - Republished last year. No report

17) F 717-95 Football helmets - Thad Ide No report

18) F1163-00 Equestrian- status - Roy Burek - This item went to ballot. There were 3 negatives. There was a problem with the format of the ballot and It was unclear from the ballot what exactly was being changed. After discussion and clarification, all 3 negatives were withdrawn. The balloted change goes on to main committee ballot.

Task group Roy Burek, John Sabelli

Additional equestrian activity - Dave Halstead has sent a letter to Senator Dodd who is head of a committee that is looking at a bill in the US Senate that would require the CPSC to adopt an equestrian helmet standard. This is similar to the legislation that required the CPSC to adopt a bicycle helmet standard. The legislation would list the adoption of the ASTM standard, and not one from the CPSC. The issue of updating the standard is also included in the letter. There has been no response since the letter was sent 9/6/02.

Branch task group - Roy is still looking for a letter that was in the equestrian press, regarding that ASTM had not considered branches & equestrian helmets. There are concerns in the UK regarding penetration injuries.

19) Rodeo Helmets - New standard - Status: - Task group will continue activity.

Task group Fred Sulzbach, Len Clement, Roy Burek

20) F1492-00 Skateboarding - No report

Notes: No manufacturers are making helmets certified to F1492.

21) F-1849-00 Short Track speed ice skating - No report, nothing pending

22) Whitewater sports helmet - Eric Darnell is the new task group chairman (point person) More data is needed regarding injuries.

Task group: Eric Darnell, Gill Turner, Dave Halstead

23) Mountaineering. - No active task group

24) Jaw Joint Protectors - New (Z6103Z) - Chris Withnall reported that there is activity in this area with Biokinetics and Wayne State University working together. There is a target date of DEC 2005 for a completion date.

Task group Chris Withnall

25) Other business

F-08 Administrative deadlines:

1st round subcommittee ballots Due 1DEC02
Minutes and Main ballot items Due 23JAN03
2nd round subcommittee ballots Due 7MAR03
Agendas (Kansas City) Due 4APR03

Review of subcommittee membership:
The subcommittee is in balance as regards to producers vs. all other categories.

Producers: Voters 26 - Non-Voters 30
Users: Voters 8 - NonVoters 1 Consumer: Voters 0 - NonVoters 0 General Interest: Voters 57 - Nonvoters 11 Unclassified Voters 1 - Non Voters 4 Totals: Voters 92 - Non-voters 46

Future F-08 meeting dates are as follows: May 7-10 2003 Kansas City, MO Westin Crown Center, Kansas City, MO
Nov. 19-22 2003 Tampa, FL Tampa Marriott Waterside, Tampa, FL
May 18-21 2004 Salt Lake City, UT Little America Hotel & Towers
Nov. 10-13 2004 Washington, D.C. Omni Shoreham, Washington D.C.
May 17-20 2005 Reno, NV Hilton Reno Resort, Reno, NV
Nov. 9-12 2005 Dallas, TX Hyatt Regency, Dallas, TX
May 16-19 2006 Toronto, Canada Sheraton Centre Toronto
Nov. 15-18 2006 Atlanta, GA Hyatt Regency, Atlanta

Next Meeting - May 7-10, 2003 - Kansas City, MO

The meeting was adjourned at 11:41 AM

Respectfully submitted, Isabel Wright (Secretary)




Last modified: July 21, 2002

Return to BHSI home page